I've finally had a chance to take a look at the exclusive interview Globo's William Waack conducted with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during the latter's visit to Brazil last week. First is the video clip, followed by a full transcription. Lest any of you are tempted to dismiss Ahmadinejad's answers as lies, pointless, grandstanding, kowtowing or what have you, I would urge you to pay equal attention to the order in which Waack poses the questions as equally as significant as the substance of Ahmadinejad's answers. Here you go:
1:00
Waack: What do you expect to find in Brazil?
Ahmadinejad: I would like to express my sincere sympathy and to congratulate the people of Brasilia and the officials of Brazil. In the first place we are concentrating on relations between our nations because the nations of the world meet the demands and the necessities of one another. Between Iran and Brazil, we can create better relations on a number of different fronts. The two nations, these two great nations are in two of the most important regions of the world. Brazil is in the heart of South America, and Iran is in the heart of the Middle East. I think about what we will need from our friends and brothers of your country.
2:10
Waack: In times of international economic crisis, how could Brazil help Iran?
Ahmadinejad: We think the two countries could work together in two areas, could maintain bilateral relations to meet the demands of each country's domestic economic necessities. Another aspect is collaboration on the international stage. The two countries have much potential and capacity. We are in an optimal position to help each other's necessities in different sectors such as agriculture, industry, science, energy and various types of technologies. We all arrive at the conclusion that the world needs a new economic order. Iran and Brazil have independent positions with regards to the international situation and are taking the right position to confront and unwind the situation. The two countries can work together to help create a new international order.
3:35
Waack: Mr. President, allow me to focus on one issue that you have mentioned in your answer: industry and technology. First of all, Brazil is and probably will remain a capitalist economy and fighting for social justice. But in terms of technology, Brazil is way behind Iran. Iran is far more advanced, for instance, in missle technology. Is that something you would like to offer Brazil?
04:15
Ahmadinejad: I would like to call attention to the fact that the type of capitalism that we think has arrived is at ultimately contrary to the concept of social justice. The principal idea of capitalism is contradictory to the idea of justice. Us, Brazil and Iran, seek to establish and institute a just economic system, based on humanitarian principles, in which the right to private property is respected. When two countries unite, they have to share resources, combine forces. Brazil is an enormous country, it is a large, vast country, a great nation, with a wealth of resources in different areas. Iran is also a vast country and a great nation. And we also have many resources in our country. We could exchange and share resources and experiences in many areas. For example, Iran has made great progress in nanotechnology and biotechnology. We can create great partnerships with Brazil in these fields.
06:20
Waack: Do you think about cooperation with Brazil in the nuclear sector? Brazil has the same sort of technology that Iran is trying to develop and is having problems, internationally speaking, with guaranteeing its rights to develop this technology, which Brazil already has.
06:40
Ahmadinejad: Our nuclear technology is domestically produced. It is it not imported. It was developed in our country. We can develop it rapidly. At this moment, we do not need to import nuclear technology. We can create great partnerships to construct nuclear plants. The plants are what provide the technology to produce nuclear energy. The technology that we have in Iran is for producing nuclear energy. The plants exist to consume nuclear energy. We believe that, in this field, we can forge a partnership. The two countries need to use nuclear energy to generate power and electricity.
07:55
Waack: Mr. President, Brazil has a long history of trying to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes. Brazil has developed the technology for uranium enrichment and this technology is being supervised by international agencies like the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency. Is there anything in Brazil's history in the field of nuclear technology and nuclear diplomacy that could be useful for you?
08:35
Ahmadinejad: We think that both Brazil and Iran have the right to take advantage of nuclear technology. We know that Brazil also has encountered problems in this area. It is part of the idea of capitalism. Various countries are going to monopolise the technologies and capacities for themselves. They will not want other countries that adopt independent policies to have nuclear technologies and other advancements at their disposal. All of our activities are inspected by the IAEA and we do not have any problems. It is clear that Brazil has always supported Iran's right to make use of nuclear technology. The question raised by various western countries with relation to Iran's nuclear programme has been politically motivated. The case is closed in our opinion. It is clear that we continue interacting with and consulting our Brazilian friends but we do not have problems in this area. Obviously, some countries have been hostile to Iran since the victory of the Islamic Revolution. They try to create problems for Iran. In recent years, they have resorted to the question of Iran's nuclear programme. When the nuclear question is closed, they will think of something else. We learn to live with it and continue our lives. Their stance does not matter to us. Their stance has no legal merit. The people of Iran do not listen to these things. This is not important to us. They're going to find themselves alone.
11:25
Waack: So on the nuclear issue, you count on Brazilian support.
Ahmadinejad: Brazil has always supported Iran's right to nuclear technology and we are grateful for that. But the case is closed. Our enemies do the most they can to impede us. They will create resolutions against Iran, impose sanctions, threaten to carry military actions, launch political campaigns against us. But we become stronger and they will become weaker, because they do not know Iran and Iran is a millennial civilisation. Now other nations are emerging. Nations like Brazil and Iran. Brazil is a great nation, a strong culture, a friendly nation who seeks to establish peace and justice. We know that for more than a century, the Brazilian people endured intense pressure from these countries. We know to what point they have raided your national wealth. Today, we can see that they will try to impede the country's faster pace of development. We know that Brazil is a more developed nation than some of those in North America. But we know that their income per capita is a few times larger than that in Brazil. That fact is the result of the injustice of the current world order.
14:05
Waack: Let's turn our attention to your relationship with your colleague, President Lula. Lula supported you very strongly the day after the presidential election in Iran, when there were accusations of elections being rigged and many people protested in the street and Lula said you are the winner. Are you greatful for him?
Ahmadinejad: Exactly. I am very grateful for his position. We first met four years ago. We are friends. We are very good friends. The two of us support the mutual prosperity and well-being of our nations. We represent two great nations. In national terms, we have identical visions. We are both interested in improving relations between our two countries.
15:25
Waack: Yes, you are right. You and President Lula have different views on some international issues. Let's take one, for example, which is the conflict in Palestine. Brazil recognises Israel's right to exist, and Lula, as far as I have been informed, asked you, Mr. President, about some remarks you made in the treaty four years ago about the killing of Jews in the Second World War. This is for Lula, and for many Brazilians, not acceptable. What will you tell us now?
16:10
Ahmadinejad: When we say we are friends, it means that we put our opinions in a friendly way and we try to arrive at an understanding. There is no way two friends will agree on every issue. The important thing is that both sides recognise certain principles. We think that President Lula combats injustices and we also are against injustice. Perhaps, with regard to some issues, we need to have more of a dialogue. We are against hegemony by one nation over the entire world. One country against another. We are against any unilateral imposition against other nations. Our two countries believe that all nations have the right to development, progress and independence. Our two countries are against coercion and the use of force in international relations. We both prefer to have a dialogue and that international issues are discussed logically. It is important for our two countries to have identical positions and viewpoints. It is obvious that, while we continue our friendly relations, we will have many things in common. Neither Brazil nor Iran will impose its hegemony over others. We will develop our nations. We love our people and seek world peace. Our two countries know that the Palestine question is the most important for the international community. Our two countries are not satisfied with the oppression against the Palestinians. The point that I raised is quite clear. I raised two questions. I asked two very clear questions. The first was: if a Holocaust occurred, where did it occur? Obviously it was in Europe. Everyone knows that. If it happened, it happened in Europe. The second question: what does that have to do with the Palestinian people? Why do the Palestinians have to pick up the check? They are innocent, they have not committed one sin. They have been massacred for nearly 60 years. In Europe, some people say that a crime happened. Why should the Palestinians be punished for it? Why are Palestinian lands being given to others to compensate for this crime? Our question is very clear. If some people committed crimes in Europe, it is they who should be punished, not the Palestinians. These are very clear questions.
21:10
Waack: Mr. President, you will be addressing the Brazilian people during your visit here. Some people are protesting against your presence in Brazil, particularly people associated with gay activists. What is your message? Have they misunderstood what you said some years ago at Columbia University? Now is the opportunity for you to address the Brazilian people on this issue, because in Brazil it has been a problem.
21:45
Ahmadinejad: I don't expect the whole world to agree with my opinions. People have different points of view. But we believe that homosexuality is against human nature. Human beings have the right to not be humiliated. We think that, if homosexuality continues, the human race will not survive. It is the wrong direction. It is a perversion. Ancient prophets of God condemned this. They asked me a question at Columbia University and I responded. I said that this goes against the logic of Creation. The Lord did not create human beings for this.
22:50
Waack: Mr. President, before I say thank you for the interview, I want to give you the opportunity to direct to the camera a message to the Brazilian people if you like.
23:05:
Ahmadinejad: Again, I would like to greet the Brazilian people. We love Brazilians. We love all nations of the world, principally those who seek to establish justice and those who suffered oppression and injustices in the past. We believe that the nations of Iran and Brazil could have an important role in the creation of a just and free world. I pray to the all-powerful for your health, your prosperity, your well-being and eternal happiness. Thank you.
he is sure very brave at the moment. but heres some statistic after the elections:
--39 percent of the youth and 23 percent of the older age group who had voted for Ahmadinejad now regretted their vote.
--The most dramatic erosion of support has been in small towns and rural areas where the regime was once unquestioned
--Interestingly, the September poll showed that 63 percent of the anti-Ahmadinejad youth group, who were in a major city in June and July due to work, joined demonstrations.
--Another 22 percent said they would have liked to join but were working, though all said they wore green wristbands.
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